Hello all, This is not meant by any means to be a negative post ridiculing any ride leader or other group participant, but rather a post stating that the site and current rides on the calendar really need an updating. I think it is completely cool to have rides that push the limit and allow the riders in the group the chance to accomplish whatever their goals were for that day/ride; heck it's what we all strive to do as cyclists. With that said, I went out today for my 3rd non-Saturday Signature ride today on a group ride that was posted as 16 -18mph. A speed that I'm very comfortable with holding down for many miles on end. And as it was my 3rd non-Sat. ride with Velo, I can say that it was as many the number of rides that were by no means close to the "expected" posted average. Seeing as I had nothing to do but study later on in the day - I was o.k. with being dropped & lost (via being dropped d/t my inability to hold a wheel at a constant 25+mph on the flats, let alone fly along - up and down the hills/rollers at speeds that I just can't hold). As being a rider for some time now, I am quite aware of what I can and can't do - so for me this ride wasn't about not understanding my abilities. My problem with these inaccurate Avg. Speed postings is not feeling beat up myself, but rather having been in groups in which riders couldn't hold the pace we were pushing - I know first hand that it can be frustrating to the other riders in the group to be held up, let alone when the group speed is being held to the actual posted Avg. I'm sure the guys from today's ride (the TGIF) were wondering where the heck I went.... Completely D...R...O...P...P...E...D!!! That's where. I couldn't even stay on them long enough to inform anyone that I was going to need to turn back - and as stated previously this was my 3rd time out on a posted ride in such a predicament. So, now I'm lost in a land that I have no way out of, no map to get home by - because these rides tend to be based less on actual planned events, and the other riders on that ride are now dealing with someone who has left a glitch in their ride - which for many might lead to a less than enjoyable venture. So, I'm lost and their likely pissed! No one benefits! It seems as if the rides that are non-Sat. Signature rides, are quite regularly off-peak times - i.e. your average working foe can't really fit them into their schedules on a regular basis, so you get people like me who on some random given day, all of a sudden has the time to get out on a given single ride. The majority of the riders on these rides are those few regulars who have irregular time requirements from life however; and quickly the "regular" group ride takes on the identity of the riders that show up regularly (it only makes sense), and at some point in time the original posted ride from some time ago - also takes on a new identity. All very cool..... but as these regular rides begin to evolve into either new rides or some hybrid of what once was, it would be nice (for everyone that was out on the ride) if the website was updated/corrected to give a true perspective of what to expect of these posted rides, rather than what was posted when the ride first began however long ago. Anywhoot.... just my $.02 ...and for all the guys out on the TGIF that were wondering where the heck I went'..... or if I slowed you down out there.... My apologies if I ruined your Friday ride in any regards. Hope to see some of you again - on different terms that is... Ciao, -A-

Alex. I both sympathize and empathize with you. Having been a ride leader for most of the 2 1/2 years this club has existed, I long ago threw my hands up when it comes to actually riding in a group where the advertised pace is held for even a few miles. There are constant postings on this ogoing problem, and numerous solutions have been offered but none work. And they won't given the prevailing "Velo Vibe" which translates to screw the posted group speed limits, ride as hard as you can on every ride, never let anyone get a half wheel ahead, attack on every roller, stretch the group out into an unmanageable and chaotic mess, pay no attention to anyone who can't keep up even though the speed far exceeds the alleged guidelines and . . . well, you get the idea. No, not every Velo member is guilty of the foregoing; in fact, a fair number are the antithesis of this scenario. But too many are, and it is these members, most of whom are race team wannabes who willfully "drop down" a group in order to show off and impress all with how strong they are, and who, from the start, have no intention of even trying to honor the stated group tempo and dynamic that are turning what should be the club's showpiece, the Saturday Signature Ride, into a frustrating experience, particularly for those riders such as you who are new to the club and seeking a ride that will be challenging for you but also one that adheres to the tempo stated at the ride's outset. In 12 1/2 years of doing most of the SatSig rides, I have been on maybe a half dozen that went off as they should. I've no come to accept the reality that it's just not going to change, that we will have to live and ride within What Is rather than What Should Be. That said, give it another try next time and hope for the best. That you were dropped, and that no one even looked back to check on you, is unacceptable but, alas, a situation certain to be repeated.

Hi Alex,

I agree with your assertion that the ride stats should be updated for the TGIF ride. I've never been on that ride at 16-18 mph. The group that shows up on Friday is usually part of the A21 or even Hammer and Nails on Saturday. As a result this ride normally is in the 19-21 mph range with a few surges or sprints thrown in for good measure. When you show up for rides on a weekday you should let the ride leader know what your ability is and he may be able to group you with someone similar. These weekday rides tend to break up naturally into various groups but there will be people of all ability levels so you should be able to find someone to ride with.     

 

Hey Doug,

Don't be so cynical, It's not even raining.

Yardsale 

 

Not cynical, Marc. Just realistic.

Doug Rennie:

That you were dropped, and that no one even looked back to check on you, is unacceptable but, alas, a situation certain to be repeated.

I've been in the same situations, sometimes with Doug, when someone felt like flexing and spun up the pace to show off. More often than that I think we get into a situation where the pace just goes and everyone follows; sorta like the Gales Creek example I gave in my other post on this subject. Two things come to mind for me...

1. The ride leader is obligated to ride at the agreed-upon pace. This may be the published pace of the ride, or a variation depending on what the group decides to do prior to rolling out. The key here is to talk about it before you roll out, and that is also the responsibiity of the ride leader.
2. Every rider is responsible for their ride. If someone winds up the pace and you choose to follow, that's your problem. If the ride leader follows - or is the one winding up the pace - that's our problem. So Alex, I am thankful that you spoke up in this forum so our ride leaders are aware of things like this that happen. However, I also think that each member has an equal obligation to help keep the ride under control, either by keeping to you implicit commitment to ride sanely in the group you chose or by helping to get the group to calm down. The ride leader often doesn't see everything and I know most would appreciate some help.

The reason we formed a Hammer and Nails group was to let the hammerheads duke it out, away from the rest of the club. I am extremely disappointed when I hear about incidents like this, and I would like to ask all ride leaders to take stock of what's happening on their rides and bring ideas to keep this in check to the next ride leaders meeting.

When we started the club, I received a lot of email at the info@portlandvelo.net mailbox about this. What it took to get us out of the "old way of group cycling" was constant vigilence of incidents like this by the ride leaders and the leadership team. It took a few individuals like Doug to keep consistent on the message. But its tiring.

Keeping Portland Velo the fun and inclusive club we know and love is a shared responsibility.